Polish Ambassador to Georgia on Poland-EU & Georgia-NATO Relations

Interview

Strategic Partner of Georgia– few countries in Europe can be called that (not that many of them aspire to be), but Poland certainly deserves this and many other accolades for fostering and strengthening Georgia’s Euro-Atlantic aspirations from the very beginning. However, Warsaw itself is at what you might call an all-time low in relations with the European Union, with its government accusing the Brussels leadership of an overbearing agenda and patronizing attitude. Will these tensions with Brussels have an effect on Poland’s support towards Georgia? GEORGIA TODAY and Panorama TV Show asked the Ambassador of Poland, His Excellency, Mariusz Maszkiewicz, at a meeting with students of the Black Sea International University.

Describe the bilateral relations between our two countries. What are the cornerstones?

Polish-Georgian relations are deeply rooted in history. The 19th century and late 18th century saw many Poles settling in Georgia, having been expelled from Poland for their political activity. In Poland, there is a great deal of affection towards Georgians since we see in Poland that the history of Georgia is very similar to our own: located between great empires, trying to maintain its Christian identity, making us very strong in our desire to fight external threats. Poland always had Russia and Germany trying to divide our country, to take our freedom. Georgia was under the threat of three empires – Persian, Ottoman/Turkish and Russian. It was in a constant state of war, facing aggression from outside. We admire the strength needed to keep identity in such circumstances. We see Georgia as very similar to us.

And what is the current setup of our relationship?

Since Georgia claimed its independence, Poland has been by Georgia’s side, supporting Georgia’s territorial integrity, sovereignty, and its ambitions to join the EU and NATO.

PM Szydlo’s latest speech, where she says [quote] that “Poland won’t partake in the madness of Brussels,” has gone viral. What are the chief reasons for this confrontation between the EU and Poland?

It is a hot point between our relations with a number of EU institutions. Many European societies would like to make Europe a Europe for the people. More a ‘Europe for the nations’ than the ‘EU for itself’. Left or liberal ideology makes it too much, let’s say, ideologist. The project of the 1940s, and later of Schumann, Monnet and others, was rooted in Christianity. We in Poland, Hungary and many other countries still consider the EU project as one which should be close to Christian values.

Do you think Christian values are undermined by the current EU?

Yes. Let’s take the big discussion about the European Constitution, 2005-2007. The Constitution project was rejected by the French and Dutch societies for religious reasons. Some people say that Pope Benedict 16th took the name Benedict to remind Europe that it should be Christian because it was founded by such people, by such monks and Christian saints like Benedictus. And for us in Poland, and as I know in Germany, it was a wonder why we could not say that we are rooted in Christianity. Why should this constitution not be based on the basic values that are rooted in our European Christian history?

European liberals say that liberal values are Christian values

Yes. In Christianity, a man as an individual is essential. In the Soviet Union, we had collectivism, and we are afraid of such collectivism in constructing the new Europe. And we don’t like to get decisions made for us in Brussels as it was in previous times when we were pushed to take the decisions coming from Moscow.

Brussels says the Polish government approved some reforms that the EU deemed “undemocratic”. Brussels and Warsaw are engaged in a serious trial of strength. Do you foresee some kind of “PEXIT”?

No, no. Polish people and society are Euro-optimistic. More than 70% of Polish society is for the EU. But still, we do not like to receive decisions from outside. Take migration, for example. For Germany, it has had such since the early 1950s and German facilities are prepared to take in immigrants, to help them to live in Germany, to learn the German language and so on. For Poland, the problem of immigrants is very new and we found ourselves unprepared to suddenly receive thousands of people from outside, from other cultures. And we were against this command that we should do so because Berlin or Brussels decided instead of us.

Poland is seen as a chief supporter of Georgia’s Euro-Atlantic integration. With Montenegro becoming the 29th member of the Alliance, many in Georgia are asking how

This is an issue not solely dependent on each NATO member capital. The decision to become a NATO member, in Poland’s case made over 18 years ago, lies in Washington, the most powerful NATO member. The US provides security in the great area of Europe and further afield. So, we have to count what is in the interests of the US.

The Georgian government announced plans to downsize the military contingent in Afghanistan and focus more on strengthening its own defense capabilities. A similar policy was pursued by Poland…

It’s not my role to assess the shifting of means and sources in Georgia but from a Polish point of view, I can say that we are boosting our internal military capability.

With what justification?

Because of the threat from Russia. Let’s be open. Because of Russian aggression in Georgia and Ukraine, we decided to build up our own forces to have the potential to defend ourselves. Because we could not wait for NATO so long. It is counted that aggression from the East could last 2-3 weeks and we could hold for that amount of time. At present, with our current territorial defense system, we are capable of defending ourselves for around one month.

Yet many in Georgia criticize the downsizing of its military presence in Afghanistan and boosting its own military capabilities as “pro-Russian,” seeing Georgia “turning its back on the West”. Would you agree?

My assessment is that the Ministry of Defense is doing its best to boost its military capabilities and army’s opportunity of defense and they are very active in this. Downsizing contingents in Afghanistan might be justified. I’m not aware of this internal decision but I have noticed a lot of visits, high ranking politicians from Tbilisi, in Washington. It is assessed in Warsaw that Georgia is very active in relations with the US. Such is key to opening the hearts of many members of NATO, to being closer to NATO. It’s key to accelerating the process of membership.

Vazha Tavberidze